M4 - QA Branch details

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M4 - QA Branch details

David Blevins
Branch Location:

  svn co http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/geronimo/branches/v1_0_M4-QA

Build:

  http://cvs.apache.org/dist/geronimo/unstable/1.0-M4-QA/

      4.0M Jul 11 02:37 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.tar.gz
        33 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.tar.gz.md5
        41 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.tar.gz.sha
      8.5M Jul 11 02:37 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.zip
        33 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.zip.md5
        41 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.zip.sha
       42M Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.tar.gz
        33 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.tar.gz.md5
        41 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.tar.gz.sha
       42M Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.zip
        33 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.zip.md5
        41 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.zip.sha
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Re: M4 - QA Branch details

Geir Magnusson Jr.
Cool.

I assume that we all play and test this for some period?

Then we vote to release.

geir

On Jul 11, 2005, at 6:06 AM, David Blevins wrote:

> Branch Location:
>
>   svn co http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/geronimo/branches/v1_0_M4-QA
>
> Build:
>
>   http://cvs.apache.org/dist/geronimo/unstable/1.0-M4-QA/
>
>       4.0M Jul 11 02:37 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.tar.gz
>         33 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.tar.gz.md5
>         41 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.tar.gz.sha
>       8.5M Jul 11 02:37 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.zip
>         33 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.zip.md5
>         41 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.zip.sha
>        42M Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.tar.gz
>         33 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.tar.gz.md5
>         41 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.tar.gz.sha
>        42M Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.zip
>         33 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.zip.md5
>         41 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.zip.sha
>
>

--
Geir Magnusson Jr                                  +1-203-665-6437
[hidden email]


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Re: M4 - QA Branch details

Jacek Laskowski-5
In reply to this post by David Blevins
David Blevins wrote:

> Branch Location:
>
>   svn co http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/geronimo/branches/v1_0_M4-QA
>
> Build:
>
>   http://cvs.apache.org/dist/geronimo/unstable/1.0-M4-QA/
>
>       4.0M Jul 11 02:37 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.tar.gz
>         33 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.tar.gz.md5
>         41 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.tar.gz.sha
>       8.5M Jul 11 02:37 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.zip
>         33 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.zip.md5
>         41 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.zip.sha
>        42M Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.tar.gz
>         33 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.tar.gz.md5
>         41 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.tar.gz.sha
>        42M Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.zip
>         33 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.zip.md5
>         41 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.zip.sha

How did you do that? A step-by-step procedure would be very appreciated.
We should put it on Wiki so that the next time someone else won't have
to reinvent the wheel.

Jacek


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Re: M4 - QA Branch details

sissonj
In reply to this post by David Blevins
I was a little surprised to see that we haven't resolved the SNAPSHOT
issue after so many people said it was something they wanted resolved in
M4 (see responses in thread "Re: [PROPOSAL] Next milestone release (M4?)".
 Can't we resolve the SNAPSHOTs issue by modifying the branch before
releasing and at least using dated jar files if we can't move to a formal
release of a dependency?

John


David Blevins <[hidden email]> wrote on 11/07/2005 08:06:44 PM:

> Branch Location:
>
>   svn co http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/geronimo/branches/v1_0_M4-QA
>
> Build:
>
>   http://cvs.apache.org/dist/geronimo/unstable/1.0-M4-QA/
>
>       4.0M Jul 11 02:37 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.tar.gz
>         33 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.tar.gz.md5
>         41 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.tar.gz.sha
>       8.5M Jul 11 02:37 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.zip
>         33 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.zip.md5
>         41 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.zip.sha
>        42M Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.tar.gz
>         33 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.tar.gz.md5
>         41 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.tar.gz.sha
>        42M Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.zip
>         33 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.zip.md5
>         41 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.zip.sha

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Re: M4 - QA Branch details

Jacek Laskowski-5
[hidden email] wrote:

>  Can't we resolve the SNAPSHOTs issue by modifying the branch before
> releasing and at least using dated jar files if we can't move to a formal
> release of a dependency?

How could we use the dated jar files? Do they have to be released by
respective projects or can we do it ourselves?

> John

Jacek

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Re: M4 - QA Branch details

Geir Magnusson Jr.
In reply to this post by sissonj

On Jul 11, 2005, at 7:40 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

> I was a little surprised to see that we haven't resolved the SNAPSHOT
> issue after so many people said it was something they wanted  
> resolved in
> M4 (see responses in thread "Re: [PROPOSAL] Next milestone release  
> (M4?)".
>  Can't we resolve the SNAPSHOTs issue by modifying the branch before
> releasing and at least using dated jar files if we can't move to a  
> formal
> release of a dependency?

Yes - we can update this branch as this isn't the M4 release, just  
the branch for us to do QA in prep for the eventual vote and release.

geir

>
> John
>
>
> David Blevins <[hidden email]> wrote on 11/07/2005 08:06:44  
> PM:
>
>
>> Branch Location:
>>
>>   svn co http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/geronimo/branches/v1_0_M4-QA
>>
>> Build:
>>
>>   http://cvs.apache.org/dist/geronimo/unstable/1.0-M4-QA/
>>
>>       4.0M Jul 11 02:37 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.tar.gz
>>         33 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.tar.gz.md5
>>         41 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.tar.gz.sha
>>       8.5M Jul 11 02:37 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.zip
>>         33 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.zip.md5
>>         41 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.zip.sha
>>        42M Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.tar.gz
>>         33 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.tar.gz.md5
>>         41 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.tar.gz.sha
>>        42M Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.zip
>>         33 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.zip.md5
>>         41 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.zip.sha
>>
>
>

--
Geir Magnusson Jr                                  +1-203-665-6437
[hidden email]


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Re: M4 - QA Branch details

Geir Magnusson Jr.
In reply to this post by Jacek Laskowski-5

On Jul 11, 2005, at 7:46 AM, Jacek Laskowski wrote:

> [hidden email] wrote:
>
>
>>  Can't we resolve the SNAPSHOTs issue by modifying the branch  
>> before releasing and at least using dated jar files if we can't  
>> move to a formal release of a dependency?
>>
>
> How could we use the dated jar files? Do they have to be released  
> by respective projects or can we do it ourselves?

They have to be released by respective projects.

geir

>
>
>> John
>>
>
> Jacek
>
>

--
Geir Magnusson Jr                                  +1-203-665-6437
[hidden email]


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Re: M4 - QA Branch details

sissonj
In reply to this post by Jacek Laskowski-5
Jacek Laskowski <[hidden email]> wrote on 11/07/2005 09:46:03 PM:

> [hidden email] wrote:
>
> >  Can't we resolve the SNAPSHOTs issue by modifying the branch before
> > releasing and at least using dated jar files if we can't move to a
formal
> > release of a dependency?
>
> How could we use the dated jar files? Do they have to be released by
> respective projects or can we do it ourselves?

Can someone give us a reason why we can't?  I though for a project to be
accepted as a dependency it had to have a license compatible with the ASL.
 So I wouldn't have thought licensing would be the issue.  Maybe there are
restrictions on what can be placed in Apache's maven repo?

I was wondering whether it would be possible for us to produce dated
(cvs)/versioned (svn) jars of SNAPSHOT dependencies and upload them under
the 'geronimo' maven groupId, so it is obvious they are special versions
of the JARs and they would all appear under maven/geronimo/jars in the
repo?

Are we allowed to do this and what maven repo would we be allowed to place
dated/versioned snapshots?

John

>
> > John
>
> Jacek
>

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Re: M4 - QA Branch details

ammulder
In reply to this post by David Blevins
        Please, please, let's update whatever does this to include the
installer package!  I strongly believe that has to be part of our basic
release process!

Aaron

On Mon, 11 Jul 2005, David Blevins wrote:

> Branch Location:
>
>   svn co http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/geronimo/branches/v1_0_M4-QA
>
> Build:
>
>   http://cvs.apache.org/dist/geronimo/unstable/1.0-M4-QA/
>
>       4.0M Jul 11 02:37 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.tar.gz
>         33 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.tar.gz.md5
>         41 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.tar.gz.sha
>       8.5M Jul 11 02:37 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.zip
>         33 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.zip.md5
>         41 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.zip.sha
>        42M Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.tar.gz
>         33 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.tar.gz.md5
>         41 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.tar.gz.sha
>        42M Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.zip
>         33 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.zip.md5
>         41 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.zip.sha
>
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Re: M4 - QA Branch details

Alan Cabrera-2
In reply to this post by Geir Magnusson Jr.
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote, On 7/11/2005 5:39 AM:

>
> On Jul 11, 2005, at 7:46 AM, Jacek Laskowski wrote:
>
>> [hidden email] wrote:
>>
>>
>>>  Can't we resolve the SNAPSHOTs issue by modifying the branch  
>>> before releasing and at least using dated jar files if we can't  
>>> move to a formal release of a dependency?
>>>
>>
>> How could we use the dated jar files? Do they have to be released  by
>> respective projects or can we do it ourselves?
>
>
> They have to be released by respective projects.

Not technically true.  We can generate our own snapshots, e.g.

outside-project-GERONIMO-200507111432.jar

The problem is that there are a *ton* of projects that we use.


Regards,
Alan




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Re: M4 - QA Branch details

Jacek Laskowski-5
In reply to this post by David Blevins
David Blevins wrote:

> Branch Location:
>
>   svn co http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/geronimo/branches/v1_0_M4-QA
>
> Build:
>
>   http://cvs.apache.org/dist/geronimo/unstable/1.0-M4-QA/
>
>       4.0M Jul 11 02:37 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.tar.gz
>         33 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.tar.gz.md5
>         41 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.tar.gz.sha
>       8.5M Jul 11 02:37 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.zip
>         33 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.zip.md5
>         41 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.zip.sha
>        42M Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.tar.gz
>         33 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.tar.gz.md5
>         41 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.tar.gz.sha
>        42M Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.zip
>         33 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.zip.md5
>         41 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.zip.sha

Do you think it's worth to announce it on Geronimo website?

What files in the repository should the change go? What's the process of
publishing our website changes?

Jacek


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Re: M4 - QA Branch details

David Jencks-2
I would prefer to hold off any announcements until we have fixed the
big problems we know about (ws deployment, corba)

david jencks
On Jul 11, 2005, at 2:16 PM, Jacek Laskowski wrote:

> David Blevins wrote:
>> Branch Location:
>>   svn co http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/geronimo/branches/v1_0_M4-QA
>> Build:
>>   http://cvs.apache.org/dist/geronimo/unstable/1.0-M4-QA/
>>       4.0M Jul 11 02:37 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.tar.gz
>>         33 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.tar.gz.md5
>>         41 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.tar.gz.sha
>>       8.5M Jul 11 02:37 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.zip
>>         33 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.zip.md5
>>         41 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.zip.sha
>>        42M Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.tar.gz
>>         33 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.tar.gz.md5
>>         41 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.tar.gz.sha
>>        42M Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.zip
>>         33 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.zip.md5
>>         41 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.zip.sha
>
> Do you think it's worth to announce it on Geronimo website?
>
> What files in the repository should the change go? What's the process
> of publishing our website changes?
>
> Jacek
>
>

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Re: M4 - QA Branch details

David Blevins
In reply to this post by Jacek Laskowski-5
On Mon, Jul 11, 2005 at 01:20:15PM +0200, Jacek Laskowski wrote:

> David Blevins wrote:
> >Branch Location:
> >
> >  svn co http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/geronimo/branches/v1_0_M4-QA
> >
> >Build:
> >
> >  http://cvs.apache.org/dist/geronimo/unstable/1.0-M4-QA/
> >
> >      4.0M Jul 11 02:37 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.tar.gz
> >        33 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.tar.gz.md5
> >        41 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.tar.gz.sha
> >      8.5M Jul 11 02:37 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.zip
> >        33 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.zip.md5
> >        41 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.zip.sha
> >       42M Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.tar.gz
> >        33 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.tar.gz.md5
> >        41 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.tar.gz.sha
> >       42M Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.zip
> >        33 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.zip.md5
> >        41 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.zip.sha
>
> How did you do that? A step-by-step procedure would be very appreciated.
> We should put it on Wiki so that the next time someone else won't have
> to reinvent the wheel.
>

Created the branch with this command:

  svn copy https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/geronimo/trunk https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/geronimo/branches/v1_0_M4-QA -m "QA Branch for 1.0-M4"

I copied this script and hard coded it specifically to create the
above package: http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/geronimo/scripts/publish_build.sh.
Want to make it all nice and reusable at some point.

I made the email by hand.

-David
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Re: M4 - QA Branch details

Geir Magnusson Jr.
In reply to this post by Alan Cabrera-2

On Jul 11, 2005, at 3:24 PM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:

> Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote, On 7/11/2005 5:39 AM:
>
>
>>
>> On Jul 11, 2005, at 7:46 AM, Jacek Laskowski wrote:
>>
>>
>>> [hidden email] wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>  Can't we resolve the SNAPSHOTs issue by modifying the branch  
>>>> before releasing and at least using dated jar files if we can't  
>>>> move to a formal release of a dependency?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> How could we use the dated jar files? Do they have to be  
>>> released  by respective projects or can we do it ourselves?
>>>
>>
>>
>> They have to be released by respective projects.
>>
>
> Not technically true.  We can generate our own snapshots, e.g.
>
> outside-project-GERONIMO-200507111432.jar
>
> The problem is that there are a *ton* of projects that we use.

I think this is a bad idea. We would be in effect publishing/
distributing software that

a) isn't ours in that we have no real clue over the provenance and

b) isn't something we'd want to see done to us.

I mean, would you like to see geronimo-kernel-
jboss-200507111423.jar?  Or have to deal with questions about  
stacktraces and behavior that we just can't understand because it  
comes from code that really isn't ours?

Now, I realize that we are really close to some projects (like have  
100% committer overlap) so you might say that we do have a clue, but  
I wouldn't want to set the practice, if we are so close then why not  
just do it 'there', etc

When we create software for distribution, which is exactly what we'd  
be doing here, we are making a statement that this software conforms  
to the ASF process for IP provenance, oversight, etc...

Just my 0.02 :)

geir


--
Geir Magnusson Jr                                  +1-203-665-6437
[hidden email]


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Re: M4 - QA Branch details

Geir Magnusson Jr.
In reply to this post by Jacek Laskowski-5

On Jul 11, 2005, at 5:16 PM, Jacek Laskowski wrote:

> David Blevins wrote:
>
>> Branch Location:
>>   svn co http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/geronimo/branches/v1_0_M4-QA
>> Build:
>>   http://cvs.apache.org/dist/geronimo/unstable/1.0-M4-QA/
>>       4.0M Jul 11 02:37 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.tar.gz
>>         33 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.tar.gz.md5
>>         41 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.tar.gz.sha
>>       8.5M Jul 11 02:37 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.zip
>>         33 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.zip.md5
>>         41 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA-src.zip.sha
>>        42M Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.tar.gz
>>         33 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.tar.gz.md5
>>         41 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.tar.gz.sha
>>        42M Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.zip
>>         33 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.zip.md5
>>         41 Jul 11 02:41 geronimo-1.0-M4-QA.zip.sha
>>
>
> Do you think it's worth to announce it on Geronimo website?

No.. I think we should wait until

a) all problems are resolved

b) we vote on releasing it

>
> What files in the repository should the change go? What's the  
> process of publishing our website changes?

Darn simple :

1) checkout the /site directory of the geronimo repository.
2) Make sure you have ant installed
3) When it comes time to announce, we add to the xdocs/index.xml as a  
new news item
4) in the site directory, run "ant"
5) look at docs/index.html to see if you like it
6) svn commit   to get the changes (both source and output) into SVN
7) Go to minotaur ->  cd /www/geronimo.apache.org/  ->  `cat UPDATE`

Then you are done.  it will take up to 4 hours for the changes on  
minotaur to be replicated to the live site, depending when in the 4  
hour cycle you do the update, of course.

geir

--
Geir Magnusson Jr                                  +1-203-665-6437
[hidden email]


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Re: M4 - QA Branch details

Alan Cabrera-2
In reply to this post by Geir Magnusson Jr.
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote, On 7/11/2005 3:46 PM:

>
> On Jul 11, 2005, at 3:24 PM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
>
>> Not technically true.  We can generate our own snapshots, e.g.
>>
>> outside-project-GERONIMO-200507111432.jar
>>
>> The problem is that there are a *ton* of projects that we use.
>
>
> I think this is a bad idea. We would be in effect publishing/
> distributing software that
>
> <snip>Some arguments against it</snip>

I've given this some more thought.

I would hope that any project who's version is SNAPSHOT that we rely on
is a project where there is close to 100% overlap, otherwise we would
just be asking for trouble to begin with.  I think that the number of
projects is actually quite small.  I'm thinking 3-4 projects.  Should be
simple enough to get them to make their own M4 snapshots, no?



Regards,
Alan


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Re: M4 - QA Branch details

Geir Magnusson Jr.

On Jul 11, 2005, at 7:05 PM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:

> Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote, On 7/11/2005 3:46 PM:
>
>
>>
>> On Jul 11, 2005, at 3:24 PM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Not technically true.  We can generate our own snapshots, e.g.
>>>
>>> outside-project-GERONIMO-200507111432.jar
>>>
>>> The problem is that there are a *ton* of projects that we use.
>>>
>>
>>
>> I think this is a bad idea. We would be in effect publishing/  
>> distributing software that
>>
>> <snip>Some arguments against it</snip>
>>
>
> I've given this some more thought.
>
> I would hope that any project who's version is SNAPSHOT that we  
> rely on is a project where there is close to 100% overlap,  
> otherwise we would just be asking for trouble to begin with.  I  
> think that the number of projects is actually quite small.  I'm  
> thinking 3-4 projects.  Should be simple enough to get them to make  
> their own M4 snapshots, no?
>

no. er, yes. er, I agree with you, no?


>
>
> Regards,
> Alan
>
>
>

--
Geir Magnusson Jr                                  +1-203-665-6437
[hidden email]


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Re: M4 - QA Branch details

Alan Cabrera-2
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote, On 7/11/2005 4:12 PM:

>
> On Jul 11, 2005, at 7:05 PM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
>
>> Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote, On 7/11/2005 3:46 PM:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On Jul 11, 2005, at 3:24 PM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Not technically true.  We can generate our own snapshots, e.g.
>>>>
>>>> outside-project-GERONIMO-200507111432.jar
>>>>
>>>> The problem is that there are a *ton* of projects that we use.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I think this is a bad idea. We would be in effect publishing/  
>>> distributing software that
>>>
>>> <snip>Some arguments against it</snip>
>>>
>>
>> I've given this some more thought.
>>
>> I would hope that any project who's version is SNAPSHOT that we  rely
>> on is a project where there is close to 100% overlap,  otherwise we
>> would just be asking for trouble to begin with.  I  think that the
>> number of projects is actually quite small.  I'm  thinking 3-4
>> projects.  Should be simple enough to get them to make  their own M4
>> snapshots, no?
>>
>
> no. er, yes. er, I agree with you, no?

Yes, but, it sounds so much better when it seems like it was my idea.


Regards,
Alan



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Re: M4 - QA Branch details

sissonj
In reply to this post by Geir Magnusson Jr.
"Geir Magnusson Jr." <[hidden email]> wrote on 12/07/2005 08:46:53 AM:

>
> On Jul 11, 2005, at 3:24 PM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
>
> > Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote, On 7/11/2005 5:39 AM:
> >
> >
> >>
> >> On Jul 11, 2005, at 7:46 AM, Jacek Laskowski wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> [hidden email] wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>  Can't we resolve the SNAPSHOTs issue by modifying the branch
> >>>> before releasing and at least using dated jar files if we can't
> >>>> move to a formal release of a dependency?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> How could we use the dated jar files? Do they have to be
> >>> released  by respective projects or can we do it ourselves?
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> They have to be released by respective projects.
> >>
> >
> > Not technically true.  We can generate our own snapshots, e.g.
> >
> > outside-project-GERONIMO-200507111432.jar
> >
> > The problem is that there are a *ton* of projects that we use.
>
> I think this is a bad idea. We would be in effect publishing/
> distributing software that
>
> a) isn't ours in that we have no real clue over the provenance and
>
> b) isn't something we'd want to see done to us.
>
> I mean, would you like to see geronimo-kernel-
> jboss-200507111423.jar?  Or have to deal with questions about
> stacktraces and behavior that we just can't understand because it
> comes from code that really isn't ours?

Yes I would prefer that to the current situation of using SNAPSHOTs.  Just
say a user does send us a stack trace.. If they are using SNAPSHOTs, how
do we know what day/time their SNAPSHOT was taken?  How do we go about
reproducing their problem considering that if we try to rebuild Geronimo
to match their environment we will most likely end up with something
different, since some of the SNAPSHOT dependencies have been updated
since.

Something I haven't considered is what if the SNAPSHOTs we are depending
upon are also depending upon SNAPSHOTs.  Looks like we need to dump the
whole tree of dependencies and identify where the SNAPSHOTs are?

>
> Now, I realize that we are really close to some projects (like have
> 100% committer overlap) so you might say that we do have a clue, but
> I wouldn't want to set the practice, if we are so close then why not
> just do it 'there', etc
>
> When we create software for distribution, which is exactly what we'd
> be doing here, we are making a statement that this software conforms
> to the ASF process for IP provenance, oversight, etc...



How are we going to deal with the situation where just before a release or
after a release a serious bug is found where changes are needed to be made
to a dependency.  Users are not going to accept "Oh, we can't ship a new
release until dependency x fixes the problem and ships a formal release,
which may be a week or it may be a year".

Here is a (hopefully not too stupid) analogy..
If you buy a car and the brakes fail, would you be happy if the car
company said you had the choice of:
a) to wait until the revised brake components come off one of their
supplier's production lines and they don't know when that is? The car
company cannot expect the production line to tool up immediately just for
them because they are already committed to manufacturing other models of
components for other manufacturers (waiting for a formal version of a
dependency).
b) use some brake components they found lying around at the factory.  They
aren't sure when they were made and what revisions may have been made to
their design since and what problems they may have had in their design
(SNAPSHOTs)
c) A technician from the car company takes your brakes and makes some
small modifications to rectify the problem and puts the car through the
standard brake tests and has documented information on what they did
(versioned SNAPSHOTs)

I think this is a serious issue and we need to discuss how this is going
to be addressed going forward.

Thanks,

John

>
> Just my 0.02 :)
>
> geir
>
>
> --
> Geir Magnusson Jr                                  +1-203-665-6437
> [hidden email]
>
>

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Re: M4 - QA Branch details

David Blevins
In reply to this post by Geir Magnusson Jr.
On Mon, Jul 11, 2005 at 06:46:53PM -0400, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
> When we create software for distribution, which is exactly what we'd  
> be doing here, we are making a statement that this software conforms  
> to the ASF process for IP provenance, oversight, etc...

Aren't we doing that anyway?  Specifically, I don't see how the rules
change if we rename foo-SNAPSHOT.jar to foo-200507111245.jar.

Not arguing, I don't grok this stuff.

-David


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