RSS Syndication and Aggregation

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RSS Syndication and Aggregation

Scott Anderson-6
I would be interested in a standard "RSS Syndication/Aggregation  
Service" getting included with a future Geronimo distribution. In my  
mind this service would make it easy for developers and content  
providers to...

1) serve up dynamically generated RSS feeds
2) subscribe to remote feeds with support for filtering and/or  
combining feeds and then republishing them (XSLT?)
3) manage subscriptions
4) provide statistics on feed usage

I suspect that the Geronimo dev team's response to this request will  
be something like..."great, why don't you get started on that".  
Hopefully, others have been thinking along these same lines though. I  
will be attempting find some time to work on a ROME GBean (https://
rome.dev.java.net/) in the short to medium term. I'll be happy to  
share that code with any interested parties once I have something. No  
guarantees on when that'll be.

If anyone has suggestions on how to structure this service, how to  
integrate with it, or what features you think are important, I'd be  
happy to hear from you here.

Scott

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Re: RSS Syndication and Aggregation

Geir Magnusson Jr.

On Jun 5, 2005, at 8:25 PM, Scott Anderson wrote:

> I would be interested in a standard "RSS Syndication/Aggregation  
> Service" getting included with a future Geronimo distribution. In  
> my mind this service would make it easy for developers and content  
> providers to...
>
> 1) serve up dynamically generated RSS feeds
> 2) subscribe to remote feeds with support for filtering and/or  
> combining feeds and then republishing them (XSLT?)
> 3) manage subscriptions
> 4) provide statistics on feed usage
>
> I suspect that the Geronimo dev team's response to this request  
> will be something like..."great, why don't you get started on  
> that". Hopefully, others have been thinking along these same lines  
> though. I will be attempting find some time to work on a ROME GBean  
> (https://rome.dev.java.net/) in the short to medium term. I'll be  
> happy to share that code with any interested parties once I have  
> something. No guarantees on when that'll be.

Great!  Why don't you get started on that?

:)

Seriously - please do...

If you get something done, we should probably think about a SVN tree  
for "applications" like this.

geir

>
> If anyone has suggestions on how to structure this service, how to  
> integrate with it, or what features you think are important, I'd be  
> happy to hear from you here.
>
> Scott
>
>

--
Geir Magnusson Jr                                  +1-203-665-6437
[hidden email]


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Re: RSS Syndication and Aggregation

Dain Sundstrom
In reply to this post by Scott Anderson-6
On Jun 5, 2005, at 5:25 PM, Scott Anderson wrote:

> I would be interested in a standard "RSS Syndication/Aggregation  
> Service" getting included with a future Geronimo distribution. In  
> my mind this service would make it easy for developers and content  
> providers to...
>
> 1) serve up dynamically generated RSS feeds
> 2) subscribe to remote feeds with support for filtering and/or  
> combining feeds and then republishing them (XSLT?)
> 3) manage subscriptions
> 4) provide statistics on feed usage
>
> I suspect that the Geronimo dev team's response to this request  
> will be something like..."great, why don't you get started on  
> that". Hopefully, others have been thinking along these same lines  
> though. I will be attempting find some time to work on a ROME GBean  
> (https://rome.dev.java.net/) in the short to medium term. I'll be  
> happy to share that code with any interested parties once I have  
> something. No guarantees on when that'll be.
>
> If anyone has suggestions on how to structure this service, how to  
> integrate with it, or what features you think are important, I'd be  
> happy to hear from you here.

Interesting idea.  I'm not too familiar with rss other then rss feeds  
from blogs and new sites.  What sort of information do you see  
Geronimo serving via RSS?   I mean I'm sure we could serve general  
information like blogs, but I'm curious if we could use this for  
management of some kind or something totally different.

Again cool idea,

-dain
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Re: RSS Syndication and Aggregation

Scott Anderson-6

You could look at this as an application service that would enable  
blogging and podcasting applications.

Alternately, you could look at it more abstractly as a generic  
subscription and notification system...a lightweight JMS type thing.  
For example, RSS/Atom could be used to enable someone to subscribe to  
a category of a product catalog, where notifications would get sent  
out if there were any additions to, removals from, or updates of  
products in that category. This service could also be used in  
workflow design patterns for routing events. The notifications don't  
have to be human readable.  The feeds could contain any sort of XML  
meta data that gets consumed by another service or application. Feed  
subscriptions will eventually be customizable using rules and  
preferences for filtering, combining, and republishing  
feeds...enabling new kinds of aggregation solutions.

You asked how Geronimo could possibly take advantage of this as a  
system service. I suppose that developers or system administrators  
might want to subscribe to certain system events that typically get  
logged and have them presented and delivered in a nicely formatted  
RSS/Atom feed. I don't really see it appropriate for any inter-
service communication within a Geronimo node at this point. However,  
RSS/Atom could be used to implement an aggregation service framework  
that runs across many Geronimo nodes or perhaps to support the  
management of those nodes.

That said, I suspect that RSS/Atom will always be focused on content  
applications.  I see podcasting evolving into a multimedia  
distribution system leveraging other technologies like BitTorrent and  
DRM with a real potential to become the TiVo for the internet. This  
system will require complex solutions such as for matching the right  
content types and formats with compatible devices. I spent a couple  
of years working on a JSR 124 implementation and see a lot of  
parallels with how ring tones and MIDlets currently get provisioned  
on mobile phones and how the RSS/Atom space is evolving.

Scott

On Jun 6, 2005, at 9:26 PM, Dain Sundstrom wrote:


> On Jun 5, 2005, at 5:25 PM, Scott Anderson wrote:
>
>
>
>> I would be interested in a standard "RSS Syndication/Aggregation  
>> Service" getting included with a future Geronimo distribution. In  
>> my mind this service would make it easy for developers and content  
>> providers to...
>>
>> 1) serve up dynamically generated RSS feeds
>> 2) subscribe to remote feeds with support for filtering and/or  
>> combining feeds and then republishing them (XSLT?)
>> 3) manage subscriptions
>> 4) provide statistics on feed usage
>>
>> I suspect that the Geronimo dev team's response to this request  
>> will be something like..."great, why don't you get started on  
>> that". Hopefully, others have been thinking along these same lines  
>> though. I will be attempting find some time to work on a ROME  
>> GBean (https://rome.dev.java.net/) in the short to medium term.  
>> I'll be happy to share that code with any interested parties once  
>> I have something. No guarantees on when that'll be.
>>
>> If anyone has suggestions on how to structure this service, how to  
>> integrate with it, or what features you think are important, I'd  
>> be happy to hear from you here.
>>
>>
>
> Interesting idea.  I'm not too familiar with rss other then rss  
> feeds from blogs and new sites.  What sort of information do you  
> see Geronimo serving via RSS?   I mean I'm sure we could serve  
> general information like blogs, but I'm curious if we could use  
> this for management of some kind or something totally different.
>
> Again cool idea,
>
> -dain
>
>


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Re: RSS Syndication and Aggregation

Dain Sundstrom
I have been thinking about this for a little bit now, and I'm really  
excited.  What I'm thinking is we use RSS to syndicate server health  
information.  For example, we could have a simple feed with an  
article for each application loaded into the server, and the content  
of the article is health information about the application.  This way  
and admin just needs to check his RSS browser every morning to see  
what is up.

Even better... we could make the system easily accessible to users,  
so they could write a custom feed that contains information health  
specific about their application.  I think this will lead to a lot of  
innovation, and be an easy way for new users to familiarize them  
selves with the internal workings of Geronimo.

I'm excited so as you said "great, why don't you get started on  
that".  Is there anything I can do to help you get started?  Also I'm  
normally on irc all day so if you want realtime help just connect to  
#geronimo on the freenode.net.

-dain

On Jun 6, 2005, at 10:59 PM, Scott Anderson wrote:

>
> You could look at this as an application service that would enable  
> blogging and podcasting applications.
>
> Alternately, you could look at it more abstractly as a generic  
> subscription and notification system...a lightweight JMS type  
> thing.  For example, RSS/Atom could be used to enable someone to  
> subscribe to a category of a product catalog, where notifications  
> would get sent out if there were any additions to, removals from,  
> or updates of products in that category. This service could also be  
> used in workflow design patterns for routing events. The  
> notifications don't have to be human readable.  The feeds could  
> contain any sort of XML meta data that gets consumed by another  
> service or application. Feed subscriptions will eventually be  
> customizable using rules and preferences for filtering, combining,  
> and republishing feeds...enabling new kinds of aggregation solutions.
>
> You asked how Geronimo could possibly take advantage of this as a  
> system service. I suppose that developers or system administrators  
> might want to subscribe to certain system events that typically get  
> logged and have them presented and delivered in a nicely formatted  
> RSS/Atom feed. I don't really see it appropriate for any inter-
> service communication within a Geronimo node at this point.  
> However, RSS/Atom could be used to implement an aggregation service  
> framework that runs across many Geronimo nodes or perhaps to  
> support the management of those nodes.
>
> That said, I suspect that RSS/Atom will always be focused on  
> content applications.  I see podcasting evolving into a multimedia  
> distribution system leveraging other technologies like BitTorrent  
> and DRM with a real potential to become the TiVo for the internet.  
> This system will require complex solutions such as for matching the  
> right content types and formats with compatible devices. I spent a  
> couple of years working on a JSR 124 implementation and see a lot  
> of parallels with how ring tones and MIDlets currently get  
> provisioned on mobile phones and how the RSS/Atom space is evolving.
>
> Scott
>
> On Jun 6, 2005, at 9:26 PM, Dain Sundstrom wrote:
>
>
>
>> On Jun 5, 2005, at 5:25 PM, Scott Anderson wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> I would be interested in a standard "RSS Syndication/Aggregation  
>>> Service" getting included with a future Geronimo distribution. In  
>>> my mind this service would make it easy for developers and  
>>> content providers to...
>>>
>>> 1) serve up dynamically generated RSS feeds
>>> 2) subscribe to remote feeds with support for filtering and/or  
>>> combining feeds and then republishing them (XSLT?)
>>> 3) manage subscriptions
>>> 4) provide statistics on feed usage
>>>
>>> I suspect that the Geronimo dev team's response to this request  
>>> will be something like..."great, why don't you get started on  
>>> that". Hopefully, others have been thinking along these same  
>>> lines though. I will be attempting find some time to work on a  
>>> ROME GBean (https://rome.dev.java.net/) in the short to medium  
>>> term. I'll be happy to share that code with any interested  
>>> parties once I have something. No guarantees on when that'll be.
>>>
>>> If anyone has suggestions on how to structure this service, how  
>>> to integrate with it, or what features you think are important,  
>>> I'd be happy to hear from you here.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Interesting idea.  I'm not too familiar with rss other then rss  
>> feeds from blogs and new sites.  What sort of information do you  
>> see Geronimo serving via RSS?   I mean I'm sure we could serve  
>> general information like blogs, but I'm curious if we could use  
>> this for management of some kind or something totally different.
>>
>> Again cool idea,
>>
>> -dain
>>
>>
>>
>
>

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Re: RSS Syndication and Aggregation

Scott Anderson-6

This health reporting system you describe seems to be a worthwhile project and should shed some light on how this syndication service could be structured and integrated with. I am thinking of leveraging Geronimo's support for JMX to generate the content for these feeds. Let me know if you know of a more appropriate mechanism to do this type of system introspection.

I can see some simple workflow functionality being gradually introduced into a system like this. Say the JMX health state or statistics indicated some action was required. In this case the feed content could include a link into the relevant part of the JMX console UI where some suggested actions can be presented for user execution.

Also, since images can be presented in the contents of RSS/Atom feeds there is an opportunity to present the state of the server and its services using charts and graphs!

Scott

On Jun 7, 2005, at 12:26 AM, Dain Sundstrom wrote:

I have been thinking about this for a little bit now, and I'm really excited.  What I'm thinking is we use RSS to syndicate server health information.  For example, we could have a simple feed with an article for each application loaded into the server, and the content of the article is health information about the application.  This way and admin just needs to check his RSS browser every morning to see what is up.

Even better... we could make the system easily accessible to users, so they could write a custom feed that contains information health specific about their application.  I think this will lead to a lot of innovation, and be an easy way for new users to familiarize them selves with the internal workings of Geronimo.

I'm excited so as you said "great, why don't you get started on that".  Is there anything I can do to help you get started?  Also I'm normally on irc all day so if you want realtime help just connect to #geronimo on the freenode.net.

-dain

On Jun 6, 2005, at 10:59 PM, Scott Anderson wrote:



You could look at this as an application service that would enable blogging and podcasting applications.

Alternately, you could look at it more abstractly as a generic subscription and notification system...a lightweight JMS type thing.  For example, RSS/Atom could be used to enable someone to subscribe to a category of a product catalog, where notifications would get sent out if there were any additions to, removals from, or updates of products in that category. This service could also be used in workflow design patterns for routing events. The notifications don't have to be human readable.  The feeds could contain any sort of XML meta data that gets consumed by another service or application. Feed subscriptions will eventually be customizable using rules and preferences for filtering, combining, and republishing feeds...enabling new kinds of aggregation solutions.

You asked how Geronimo could possibly take advantage of this as a system service. I suppose that developers or system administrators might want to subscribe to certain system events that typically get logged and have them presented and delivered in a nicely formatted RSS/Atom feed. I don't really see it appropriate for any inter-service communication within a Geronimo node at this point. However, RSS/Atom could be used to implement an aggregation service framework that runs across many Geronimo nodes or perhaps to support the management of those nodes.

That said, I suspect that RSS/Atom will always be focused on content applications.  I see podcasting evolving into a multimedia distribution system leveraging other technologies like BitTorrent and DRM with a real potential to become the TiVo for the internet. This system will require complex solutions such as for matching the right content types and formats with compatible devices. I spent a couple of years working on a JSR 124 implementation and see a lot of parallels with how ring tones and MIDlets currently get provisioned on mobile phones and how the RSS/Atom space is evolving.

Scott

On Jun 6, 2005, at 9:26 PM, Dain Sundstrom wrote:




On Jun 5, 2005, at 5:25 PM, Scott Anderson wrote:





I would be interested in a standard "RSS Syndication/Aggregation Service" getting included with a future Geronimo distribution. In my mind this service would make it easy for developers and content providers to...

1) serve up dynamically generated RSS feeds
2) subscribe to remote feeds with support for filtering and/or combining feeds and then republishing them (XSLT?)
3) manage subscriptions
4) provide statistics on feed usage

I suspect that the Geronimo dev team's response to this request will be something like..."great, why don't you get started on that". Hopefully, others have been thinking along these same lines though. I will be attempting find some time to work on a ROME GBean (https://rome.dev.java.net/) in the short to medium term. I'll be happy to share that code with any interested parties once I have something. No guarantees on when that'll be.

If anyone has suggestions on how to structure this service, how to integrate with it, or what features you think are important, I'd be happy to hear from you here.





Interesting idea.  I'm not too familiar with rss other then rss feeds from blogs and new sites.  What sort of information do you see Geronimo serving via RSS?   I mean I'm sure we could serve general information like blogs, but I'm curious if we could use this for management of some kind or something totally different.

Again cool idea,

-dain










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Re: RSS Syndication and Aggregation

Dain Sundstrom
On Jun 7, 2005, at 10:54 AM, Scott Anderson wrote:

>
> This health reporting system you describe seems to be a worthwhile  
> project and should shed some light on how this syndication service  
> could be structured and integrated with. I am thinking of  
> leveraging Geronimo's support for JMX to generate the content for  
> these feeds. Let me know if you know of a more appropriate  
> mechanism to do this type of system introspection.

I'd just say try to get this working in Geronimo as a GBean serving  
dummy data, and then I'll help you get a hook directly into the  
Geronimo kernel.  From the kernel you can access everything without  
having to code against ugly JMX apis.  Also JMX is an optional add-on  
for Geronimo so it is best not to tie yourself to it.

> I can see some simple workflow functionality being gradually  
> introduced into a system like this. Say the JMX health state or  
> statistics indicated some action was required. In this case the  
> feed content could include a link into the relevant part of the JMX  
> console UI where some suggested actions can be presented for user  
> execution.

We could hook this into the yet-to-materialize management console.

> Also, since images can be presented in the contents of RSS/Atom  
> feeds there is an opportunity to present the state of the server  
> and its services using charts and graphs!

This is going to be very cool!

-dain
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Re: RSS Syndication and Aggregation

Scott Anderson-6

On Jun 7, 2005, at 11:50 AM, Dain Sundstrom wrote:

This health reporting system you describe seems to be a worthwhile project and should shed some light on how this syndication service could be structured and integrated with. I am thinking of leveraging Geronimo's support for JMX to generate the content for these feeds. Let me know if you know of a more appropriate mechanism to do this type of system introspection.


I'd just say try to get this working in Geronimo as a GBean serving dummy data, and then I'll help you get a hook directly into the Geronimo kernel.  From the kernel you can access everything without having to code against ugly JMX apis.  Also JMX is an optional add-on for Geronimo so it is best not to tie yourself to it.


I found some time this weekend to get started on this.  Should I be looking at the KernelRegistry class as a starting point?

Microsoft has jumped on the RSS bandwagon. I find myself identifying with their perspective on the potential for this technology. Where it makes sense I am considering the possibility of leveraging a spec that Microsoft has proposed for extending RSS to be able to declare a feed as an ordered list and provide meta data that a feed client can use to present syndicated changes to the contents of or ordering of the set of list items. The extensions' spec has been submitted with a Creative Commons license.


In addition to this 'RSS Feed Server' that I will be constructing as a configuration of Geronimo application services, I will also be applying these same syndication services to the development of a client-side 'RSS Application Server' Geronimo configuration which will manage a set of feeds subscribed to run on that client. As opposed to an RSS document that gets viewed in a browser or news reader, an RSS application feed would get served up with a mime type of 'application/rss+xml' when a link to an application feed (subscribe button) is clicked on within a browser. As the RSS application gets started with a subscribe event there would be a matching unsubscribe event a user communicates to the application server that ends the lifecycle of the RSS application. Think of a feed containing described application events instead of articles. Of course there is no reason that an RSS feed server could not reside on the same Geronimo node as an RSS application server in an aggregation or P2P deployment model.

I see podcasting as an example of a class of RSS applications that includes audio feeds, video feeds, and media feeds. An RSS application server running on your laptop could include podcasting services that would automatically install a downloaded audio feed to your iPod or might translate the audio file into a format compatible with your preferred audio player. The next version of iTunes will have this functionality built in so in a certain light it could be seen as an RSS application server. Alternately, an RSS application server running on your MacMini (or any personal media server) could do basically the same thing but stream the audio files over WiFi to your stereo speakers instead of performing the iPod sync to provide for a personal radio station. I also believe that there will be many useful RSS application classes like podcasting that will go beyond the realm of content oriented applications.

Scott